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14 septiembre 2006 

Blogs y control político

La "moderación de comentarios" por parte de Blogger surgió con la loable función de combatir el spam, evitar insultos, etc. Sin embargo, especialmente en los blogs que tratan temas políticos/sociales, ha terminado convirtiéndose en una fuente de censura.

Por lo menos en el caso de este tipo de blogs, el resultado final ha sido malo tanto para los titulares como para quienes realizan comentarios. Personalmente, he dejado de postear (o por lo menos no lo hago tan seguido) en aquellos blogs que incorporaron el control.

Asimismo, en un caso especial, noto que previamente a que el sistema de censura fuera puesto en práctica, la cantidad de comentarios alcanzaba mínimamente a 2 o 3 por post, con algunos máximos, relativamente periódicos, de 15. Hoy, es notable la cantidad de 0 y 1 que veo. Los picos máximos son más esporádicos, alcanzando 12 comentarios.

Otro dato importante es que la mayoría de los comentarios actuales son pro-blog. Es decir, se trata de comentarios realizados casi exclusivamente por personas totalmente afines desde el punto de vista ideológico.

En síntesis, la moderación (un eufemismo para "control") de comentarios se tradujo en menor participación y en menor diversidad de ideas.

Esta situación me lleva a hacer un paralelismo con el sistema político. De hecho, los partidos políticos son una suerte de "moderación de comentarios". Si uno quiere hacer política, inevitablemente tiene que pertenecer a un partido. La pregunta que nunca nadie hace: ¿Por qué? ¿Y si uno profesa ideas 100% individualistas, alejadas de todo agrupamiento? ¿No tiene derecho a ser parte del "proceso democrático"?

Otro punto importante es el financiamiento. ¿Por qué los partidos políticos, como personas jurídicas, tienen más derecho que una persona real, a recibir financiamiento político por parte del Estado? Me da la impresión que en este caso, se aplica el derecho desde el punto de vista nietzcheano: es así porque ellos tienen el poder para que sea así (como también ocurre en el caso de los bloggers censuradores).

En síntesis, así como la moderación de comentarios lleva a menor participación y diversidad en los blogs, el "fortalecimiento de los partidos políticos" lleva al mismo resultado en el sistema democrático. ¿O no?

6:45 a. m. |

Muy bueno; cuando se vaya el Papa, te pongo un enlace. Hoy día coloqué uno extra a tu blog porque tengo muchas visitas europeas (más que de costumbre) y así conocen tu blog y ven qué buena es la calidad de los blogs argentinos, especialmente si son de la gloriosa, SLS, ja ja. Lo digo en tono de broma, pero es en serio. Muy bueno tu post, me interpreta plenamente.

Posted by Blogger Marta Salazar | 9/14/2006 8:14 a. m.   

Gracias, Marta. Me quedo tranquilo por que se que si incorporo la moderación de comentarios, voy a seguir teniéndote como comentarista :P

Posted by Blogger Martin J. | 9/14/2006 8:50 a. m.   

Interesante.
Iluminada comparacìon.Me gusta.
De todas maneras,quiero leer,en algun Blog,el uso,y la costumbre dela PRACTOPIA.
Es decir,la pràctica concreta de la Utopìa.
No la encuentro,ni en este,ni en ninguno.(menos el mio,claro està)
Porque,y lo haces bien,comentas el tema de la financiaciòn de partidos,y porque deberìa haber si pienso en forma individual...etc.
La utopìa.
Comentame una idea CONCRETA para terminar con el regimen de financiaciòn.
Una idea CONCRETA para la clausura del Estado.
O ejemplos,CONCRETOS,( ojo,guarda con los informes que posteas,despues estamos meta buscar en la biblioteca,para contradecirte).
Lo REAL,es que el anarquismo tuvo su prueba en Barcelona y el resultado quedò a la vista.
Ok.otro ejemplo?
Lo esperamos con ansias,Destuctor....

Marcelo Camisay.
De izquierda,con tendencia al anarquismo,liberal con alma inquieta,profundamente conjetural.
http://vt-suena-mal.blogspot.com/
mail:mcamisay@fibertel.com.ar

Posted by Blogger Marcelo Camisay | 9/14/2006 9:38 a. m.   

Marcelo, la verdad que no se como terminó el anarquismo de Barcelona. Igualmente, no comulgo con la anarquía surgida en el sindicalismo (que es sospechosamente muy parecida al socialismo)

Podría decirse que soy "anarquista de mercado" o "libertario de mercado". ¿Qué significa? Que yo no quiero imponerle mi ideología a nadie. Simplemente que creo que cada cual puede vivir como le guste. Si uno piensa que es mejor vivir con un Estado, que lo haga, pero que no me obligue a mi a hacerlo. El "estado", en este caso, se convertiría en una suerte de club / obra social.

Mi propuesta sobre el financiamiento de la política es fácil: que los partidos sean financiados por su partidarios o aquellos que estén dispuestos voluntariamente a darle su dinero. En este caso, hasta podría financiarse a una persona sola, sin necesidad de estructuras.

Aclaro que puedo a llegar a contradecirme tranquilamente. Mi pensamiento es evolutivo.

Posted by Blogger Martin J. | 9/14/2006 10:00 a. m.   

Si uno se dice liberal tiene que estar abierto a la discusión, ese tipo de actitudes tan hipócritas le han hecho mucho mal a la difusión de esas ideas.

Posted by Blogger MagnusGodmunsson | 9/14/2006 12:14 p. m.   

Comparto tu opinión DdM.

Posted by Blogger Jorge S. King | 9/14/2006 12:57 p. m.   

Es una idea...pero loca.

Ahora....es una invitaciòn a la corrupciòn,porque el que pone mas guita domina.
Dominio de pensamiento,de estructura,de super estructura,de clase,de lo que venga.

No es lo mismo que te bance Macri,a que sea el Consejo Vecinal de un barrio.
No es lo mismo que te venga y te ponga plata el diario Ambito Financiero que radio La Colifata.
Aqui,una vez mas,un "Estado Amigo",es el que ajusta y balancea.imponiendo reglas.

No puedo vivir sin Estado,perdoname.Destructor.

Y es raro,porque vos no queres el Estado,pero aceptas partidos pòliticos ,y democracia, en segunda instancia,para desembocar en gobierno,( en tercera) ,que deberìa administrar poder.....en un no estado.
Y te asumis individualista...alejado de todo agrupamiento...y.....como pomo construis democaracia???????
Me llaman al SAME?..gracias.

Es un dilema sin salida,no hay dudas.
Y aclaro que el actual Estado,de derecha furibunda,no es el que me provoca placer,justamente.
Ademas,me parece tan fàcilmente coptada por la derecha ( quedese tranquilo señor,nosotros nos hacemos cargo del poder,usted quedese en su casa,a partir de mañana no hay estado...),esa forma de pensar, ( y puesta en pràctica en mas de una vez)que mejor trato de construir un Estado positivo,que abjurar de èl,para tener libertad.

Libertad a favor de quien?
Al final la mas sensata discusion no es que estado queremos.
Sino,que clase de Poder buscamos.
Esa practopìa es mas elemental,mas libre,mas sincera.mas para trabajar desde los echos,lo real.lo otros sigue siendo,a mi entender,humo dialectico.,que no aspirar a encontrar ninguna soluciòn.

Me da la sensaciòn que tu esquema de pensamiento es...
Quiero ser libre,lo merezco,aborrezco al Estado!!!
Pero no hago .....NADA.
Teorizo,cito a autores,y le pego a las Sociedades exitosas que tienen un Estado adecuado,ignoro a los Estados democràticos Ilusorios,(que me marcan la agendita),y encima entro en la ensalada ideologìca de caracterizar MAL a paises,confundièndolos con izquierda.
despùes me decis..
"Aclaro que puedo a llegar a contradecirme tranquilamente. Mi pensamiento es evolutivo."
entonces,ese veletismo (para nada contradictorio,es acomodarse segùn sople el viento),me lleva a leer al principio tus ideas,muy estimulantes,pero al rato..me doy cuenta que es una trampa!!!!
Que del dicho al Estado Facista hay un milimetro!!!!
Que la bùsqueda de libertad individual es,siempre, al costo de la General
Es un perfil quejoso de el "Estado de la Naciòn",estimado Destructor.
Un dilema para mi serìa saber que opinarias si te hubiera dado azarosamente la mano de vivir en alguna sociedad exitosa actual ( Canada,Suecia,Finlandia,Noruega,Australia,etc) y no este proto estado feudal,que llamamos.
Argentina.

Igual te anima a pensar Destructor,ojo,Señora no se confunda.
Parece alguien que trabaja para el Departamento de Estado de EEUU.,
pero eso tambièn es una ilusiòn.

No confundirse.
No?

Marcelo Camisay.
De izquierda,con tendencia al anarquismo,liberal con alma inquieta,profundamente conjetural.
http://vt-suena-mal.blogspot.com/
mail:mcamisay@fibertel.com.ar

Posted by Blogger Marcelo Camisay | 9/14/2006 1:19 p. m.   

Marcelo, abriste varios caminos de discusión.

Con respecto al tema específico del financiamiento político, hablás como si hoy, con FINANCIAMIENTO ESTATAL, todo anduviera bien. Lo que no entendi cual es tu propuesta, ¿no hacer nada?

---

Mi ideal social es una sociedad sin Estado. Eso no significa que piense que mañana a la mañana se puedan abolir todas las instituciones y listo... pero si creo hay que ir preparando el terreno.

Evolucionar no es "acomodarse según el viento", sino abrir nuevas puertas para sentir otros vientos.

Pero ya me cansé de justificar lo que no debería justificar. ¿Acaso mi posición no puede ser simplemente un capricho? ¿Quién puede sacarme el derecho a ser caprichoso?

¿Por qué en vez de hablar de mi y mis ideas no vamos a las propuestas sobre el financimiento político? ¿Vos Marcelo, qué tenés para proponer? ¿O estás contento con la situación actual?

Y ahora me despido. Acaba de Condoleeza con el cheque del mes.

Posted by Blogger Martin J. | 9/14/2006 1:42 p. m.   

Excelente!!!
Lo bueno de todo esto es que estoy muy,muy, a gusto en tu Blog.( por ahora,no nos pongamos romànticos)

Cuando "parece" que estamos en contra.
Son,sigo pensando,"sensaciones".
y somos diferentes,no hay dramas.

Eso si,cuando defiendas al Terrorismo de Estado,me las tomo.
Ese es mi lìmite.

Caos.
mi palabra preferida.

Desde ahì,se contruye.En las cenizas del caos,sale la argamasa del pensamiento.

Y no estoy PARA NADA chocho con el Estado de situaciòn.

Finaciamiento Estatal.
NADA de financiamiento Estatal.
E intervenciòn si te financian.
Porque la pràctica de la Pòlitica debe ser rentada?
Y el concepto de Servicio Pùblico?
El que quiera administrar PODER,que page no recibiendo ninguna dàdiva,ningun subsidio del Estado.
El mismo deberà si,armar una estructura que permita que las agrupaciones elijan libremente,para promover a los lìderes,y PROTEGER el voto en todas sus formas.
Los partidos se sostienen entre los afiliados.
O deberìan.
Si defendes tu idea,pues sostenela.
Que de mi dinero,como contribuyente,se sostenga a la derecha peronista o la derecha radical,no hace nada de gracia.
Y como la izquierda es patètica,menos que menos.

Te paga Condolezza?
Caramba.
Pensè que era Donald Rumsfeld.

Marcelo Camisay.
De izquierda,con tendencia al anarquismo,liberal con alma inquieta,profundamente conjetural.
http://vt-suena-mal.blogspot.com/
mail:mcamisay@fibertel.com.ar

Posted by Blogger Marcelo Camisay | 9/14/2006 2:26 p. m.   

Ah, no se. No estoy muy al tanto de la política estadounidense.

Posted by Blogger Martin J. | 9/14/2006 3:39 p. m.   

muy lúcido tu comentario, destructor.

sin embargo me gustaría aclararte que considero que la moderación de comentarios no tiene nada que ver con la censura. el término censura apunta a la acción de un gobierno en contra de la publicación de opiniones.

el que un particular determine quién puede opinar a través de un medio que le pertenece es una decisión libre del dueño de ese medio.

para dar un ejemplo, los periódicos son un medio de comunicación que no ejerce ningún tipo de censura contra sus lectores aunque no publique todas las cartas que reciben en la redacción o no edite todas las notas y reportajes que escriban sus periodistas.

de todos modos por mi parte prefiero no ejercer la moderación en mi propio blog y poner como límite que no se usen malas palabras y no se apele a agresiones verbales. pero esto se trata de una política particular ejercida por mi en mi propio medio. respeto la política que ejerza cada uno por su lado.

Posted by Blogger Jorge | 9/14/2006 11:58 p. m.   

en mi época de estudiante, escribía bastante cartas al Mercurio, que es el principal diario de mi país. Me publicaban el 95%, pero algunas... sin ciertas frases o párrafos completos. Sintomático era que, lo que escribía que tocara levemente o molestara levemente a un cierto país del Norte de América... eso me lo censuraban. Todo. No se aceptaba nada en su contra.

Posted by Blogger Marta Salazar | 9/15/2006 1:04 a. m.   

Pero como te iban a censurar Marta, si la censura solo la puede hacer un gobierno? Cuando escribís una carta de lectores o un comentario en un blog y éste nunca sale publicado, es que en realidad éste se desvaneció en el éter por no cargar suficiente energía cósmica, o sea que es tu culpa por enviar un mensaje cósmicamente débil; no hay censura eh! ;)

Posted by Blogger MarcosKtulu | 9/15/2006 6:51 a. m.   

Jorge/Marta, entiendo que existen 2 tipos de censuras: una pública (o estatal) y otra privada.

La privada me parece totalmente legítima, aunque no me agrade (después de todo la ejerce el "propietario del medio").

La pública, por supuesto, resulta inadmisible. Y hablo también de la realizada indirectamente, como por ejemplo, influyendo mediante sobornos legales (como la publicidad pública).

Posted by Blogger Martin J. | 9/15/2006 6:56 a. m.   

es cierto, debi haber escrito "censurar"...

aunque mira lo que dice el diccionario de la AE (le quito la R porque soy antimonárquica):

"censurar.
(De censura).
1. tr. Formar juicio de una obra u otra cosa.
2. tr. Corregir, reprobar o notar por malo algo.
3. tr. Murmurar, vituperar.
4. tr. Dicho del censor oficial o de otra clase: Ejercer su función; imponer, en calidad de tal, supresiones o cambios.
5. tr. ant. Hacer registro (ǁ matrícula)".

O sea, na' que ver con lo que pensaba hasta ahora sobre la palabra, que es lo mismo que piensa Marcos. Nos equivocamos.

Destructor tiene razón, andaba más cerca de la realidad que nosotros.

Lo de la propiedad privada (prop. intelectual, esa que les gusta a los chinos) de los blogs como argumento... sí; pero eso no quita que nos podamos quejar de la "censura privada".

No podemos obligar a nadie a tomar esta o esta otra decisión. Por supuesto que no.

Pero sí podemos decirle que nos parece mal o que nos parece bien lo que hace.

Hace poco, un amigo mío novato en lo de los blogs, borró un comentario bien suave, pero que a él -por su inexperiencia- le pareció horrible.

Le dije -por mail y en uso de mi libertad y debido a nuestra amistad- que me parecía mal lo que había hecho. Me respondió que le faltaba experiencia. No se enojó, ni nada.

Sí, Destructor, si pones la moderación, igual te voy a pasar a molestar... Un saludo grande a todos!

Posted by Blogger Marta Salazar | 9/15/2006 10:21 a. m.   

pensaba moderar , leí el post y no lo haré. destructor tenés razón, es al menos restricción en la participación ahora bien que hacer con las descalificaciones personales, agresiones o insultos, hay q eliminarlos o no?. no lo tengo claro, yo hacía post públicos con ellos pero no se si es el camino. Igualmente un blog sin comentarios es la bombonera sin la 12 no?
la analogías con los partidos políticos, no la comparto pero me interesa mucho más el tema comentarios.
salu2

Posted by Blogger Artemio López | 9/15/2006 4:24 p. m.   

Excelente Artemio, valió la pena el post entonces.

Las descalificaciones personales, agresiones e insultos me resultan pintorescas. Más allá de eso, es obvio que se trata de otro tipo de censura. Yo hablaba más que nada de la eliminación de opiniones contrarias.

Posted by Blogger Martin J. | 9/15/2006 4:55 p. m.   

Fidel Castro solucionó el problema de la censura en los comentarios de los blogs de manera magistral.
No hay internet para los cubanos, y listo.
Y los progres lo apoyan.
¡Desopilante!

Posted by Anonymous Anónimo | 9/15/2006 5:50 p. m.   

Ahhhhh....esa censura!!!!!....la censura impuesta por un medio para eliminar las opiniones contrarias me parece muy mal.
En cambio, la moderación de comentarios es bastante útil cuando estás siendo atacada de manera cobarde, y digo esto porque muchos bloggeros entran a tu blog y lo que menos hacen es debatir el tema que escribes, sino que los insultos son hacia el autor y más encima lo hacen como usuario anónimo.
En el mío antes tenía la moderación de comentarios hasta que la cosa se calmó, luego empezaron los usuarios anónimos asi que decidí que se aceptan sólo bloggeros debidamente registrados.
En todo caso acepto las diferencias de ideas y que se expongan sin problema siempre y cuando sea con altura de miras y con respeto.
Un abrazo.

Posted by Blogger Makeka Barría | 9/16/2006 12:27 a. m.   

A ver como salgo de esta en la que me han metido con sus comentarios:
Si tolerancia es " 2. f. Respeto a las ideas, creencias o prácticas de los demás cuando son diferentes o contrarias a las propias."; entonces
Cuando los demás tienen alguna práctica intolerante,
¿No me contradigo al condenar la intolerancia de los demás, enarbolando la tolerancia como valor absoluto?
Aclaro: la palabra tolerancia, me trae mis conflictos.
Creo que ambas posturas son intolerantes. Y la verdad no me parece que estén mal ninguna de las dos. Creo en el derecho que tiene cada persona a elegir con quién interactúa, y en el mismo derecho de la contraparte a enojarse por ello y reprobarlo.
En lo que estoy en absoluto desacuerdo es en la necesidad de que prevalezca una posición por sobre la otra.
por otro lado creo que las herramientas no pueden confundirse con las conductas que posibilitan. Un cuchillo tanto puede servir para ayudar a alimentarse como para quitarle la vida a alguien.
Mientras no exista una real necesidad compartida de escuchar al otro, aún cuando no me guste lo que dice, ningún ser humano podrá obligar al otro a hacerlo. Justamente en eso consiste la libertad. O no?

Posted by Blogger MT | 9/16/2006 2:17 a. m.   

Yo modero los comentarios en mi blog.
Y no lo considero censura sino política editorial.
Y me ne fregan los argumentos en contra de la moderación.
Todo el mundo puede linkear mis posts desde su blog y hacerlos mierda o elogiarlos.
Pero mi blog es mío, mío y mío.

A Artemio: Creo que más que la bombonera sin la 12 sería la bombonera sin la hinchada visitante.

Posted by Blogger Sine Metu | 9/18/2006 11:36 a. m.   

Sine Metu, es claro que estás en todo tu derecho a "moderar". Pero el "moderado" (no digo censurado para que no me salgan con el diccionario en la mano), también tiene derecho a molestarse por eso y expresarlo.

Yo solamente intenté dar algunos argumentos de por que me parece ilógica la moderación.

Posted by Blogger Martin J. | 9/18/2006 12:15 p. m.   

Sine, tu blog es tuyo tuyo tuyo
pero los comentarios son de cada uno uno uno. Al censurarlos estás diciendo "me cago arriba de tu cabeza de poronga pequinesa".

Posted by Blogger MarcosKtulu | 9/18/2006 11:35 p. m.   

DdM, por una vez concuerdo con Ud., en toda la primera parte del post. La segunda... tiene una fácil respuesta: La ley Sáenz Peña
Saludos

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